Dream Theater

After hearing ADTOE (legally!!!!!) which do you think are the best drum parts from the Genie?
(please specify song and time)

The sad thing is that even the most interesting drum parts here are no match to Portnoy's standard trickery. If you're looking for something as amazing as Take The Time or Metropolis part I drum parts, you're gonna be majorly disappointed. Mangini is just playing most of the stuff straight. Yeah, he plays the time signature changes correctly, but up til the change he plays straight and when the change comes he just stops and continues playing straight. He uses toms, cymbals and percussions VERY sparingly. I don't know what Petrucci programmed and what parts are Mangini's own imagination, but mostly sounds like stuff I already knew from La'Brie's solo records. It's not great. :/

Also, the drums on the album are mixed just HORRIBLY! I don't know what the band was talking about when they said the mixing was great, because it's not. Good luck trying to hear what the kick drums is playing! The snare sounds like a cardboard box and the toms are BARELY audible. This happens mostly when Rudess plays some strings and pads.. like at the last chorus of Outcry (about 9:30) -- nicely sums up Mangini's playing style too. He's not doing anything! (wtf?)

Mangini plays ok. If it were any other band I'd be more than happy. With Dream Theater, though, I'm always expecting some weird trickery and there aren't any here. It's a four star album (after a galore of two star albums) but it's missing something to be truly legendary. Maybe the Genie will come up with something more interesting in the next album. Hope that blows my mind. :)

Mangini is an excellent drummer, watching him on the European tour showed clearly what he was capable of, he added new dimensions to all of the songs played, and I can't wait to see him play again.

On the album however, he hasn't showed his full potential. While there are moments of excellent drumming (Breaking All Illusions chorus to say the least), there are moments of, while not weak; dull drumming. But this is probably down to song-writing?

I agree the mix is a bit quiet, but it actually makes the album sound really unusual and a lot different from their other releases. And I really like that. Portnoy was far too dominant on the mix, so I think this sounds just right.

But my favourite moment of drumming which I mentioned above is probably Breaking All Illusions 4:50 onwards through the chorus.

I think Mike is superb playing and sounding on this album. The drum parts are more subtle than MP's, they suit the songs and there's a lot to discover. A personal favorite drum part of mine is the ending of the instrumental section of Outcry. Some crazy stuff there!

@The Shaman: Superb sounding? Are you nuts?! :D

I'd propably like the ending of the instrumental section of Outcry but all I can hear of the drums is "splish, splash, splish, splash, splishsplash, splish, splash..." Even all the cymbals sound like splashes!And that's all you can distinguish there. I just have to imagine that maybe he's doing some crazy shit with the double kick drums... but I have no idea if he is or not because its sound is flooded by all the other instruments. He might as well just not play anything with his feet there.

I'm not bashing Mangini here. He comes off as a great personality, very warm and also an amazing player. But the drumming on this album is DULL! Even the stuff in Surrounded is more interesting than pretty much anything on this album... and that's not even that technical song.

EDIT: Or did you mean the lighter part at the end of the instrumental? Because I agree -- THAT is pretty nice. :)

Ok, so I can't edit my posts here. Nice.

I'll write another post then. What I wanted to say was:

Did you mean the lighter part at the end of the instrumental? Because I agree... that sound pretty nice. :)

EDIT: Oh, so now the edited version updated there. What's wrong with this forum software? PhpBB anyone?

=Ianuarius said:@The Shaman: Superb sounding? Are you nuts?! :D

I'd propably like the ending of the instrumental section of Outcry but all I can hear of the drums is "splish, splash, splish, splash, splishsplash, splish, splash..." Even all the cymbals sound like splashes!And that's all you can distinguish there. I just have to imagine that maybe he's doing some crazy shit with the double kick drums... but I have no idea if he is or not because its sound is flooded by all the other instruments. He might as well just not play anything with his feet there.

I'm not bashing Mangini here. He comes off as a great personality, very warm and also an amazing player. But the drumming on this album is DULL! Even the stuff in Surrounded is more interesting than pretty much anything on this album... and that's not even that technical song.

EDIT: Or did you mean the lighter part at the end of the instrumental? Because I agree -- THAT is pretty nice. :)

Well, I think we will end up in a sort of "K. Moore vs J. Rudess part 2" contest here...

MM is certainly a much more technical drummer than MP (and Mike admitted that long ago...), but of course we will have many people preferring MP (most people in the world prefer Lada Gaga to DT, de gustibus...)

IMHO, Mangini has already proved all his skills here, and I love his drumming much much more than most of MP' staff. Few reasons why:

1) Dynamics. MM >>>>>>>>>>>>> MP. Portnoy basically only plays loud...MM can play anything from simple "soft background" druminng (e.g. BAI solo) to extremly heavy and violent staff (e.g end of BITS...btw, that part is crazy, listen carefully.)

2) "Unisons". MM loves to match parts of the drum kit with other instruments and then play unisons/ polyrythms during some riffs. You can hear a clear example of this already in the intro of OTBOA. Never heard MP do that before (except of course for straightword matches)

3) Polyrythms. I've read many people saying that there are none in this disc. The truth is that there are a few, but they are so smooth and perfect you don't even realize...Best example IMO is in BAI, somewhere around 2'30"..Mike plays again the main riff that is in 7/8+6/8+5/8+7/8 and here he superimposes a 4/8 riff (with a slight triplet feel) played with the hi hat. Fun thing is that even the dynamics of the parts are totally different. That is simply magic.

..and he didn't write the parts..I think in DT12 we will see his full talent. And it will be fun. :)

Huh, I wonder what album you MP guys are listening to. As a drummer myself (don't know if any of you are either) I hear a guy (MM) who's drumming is consistantly superior to anything MP did with DT. It's just that MM's playing is so effortless it's doesn't even seem like he's trying. Kind of like JP with guitar. I don't neeed to pick out any particular parts of the album to point out MM's better work, because it's all phenominal. The Portnoy's "trickery" mentioned in a previous post is exactly that. Things that sound difficult but really aren't so much so, at least for MM. MM play's all the MP parts like they're no big deal.

Now think about this. MM practiced for the tour for less than 3 weeks and had exactly 3 practices with the group before the first live show. Now considering he commited all those "complicated" MP parts to memory and played them exactly as written on the albums, I'd say that's pretty impressive in itself.

The difference between MP and MM is this. With MM drumming you have to listen FOR it because it's so nuanced and subtle, with MP drumming you have to listen AROUND it because it's so in your face and over played all the time. It's easy to see that when there's a negative MM review, it's the MP fanboys. I know and can understand and appreciate this, because I always was the #1 Portnoy fanboy myself. I still really respect what he has done for the group and his abilities, it's just he's turned into a tool. But that's for another post. Believe me, if I thought MM was anything less than stellar on this album, I'd be the first to say it.

MM allows the group to sail into uncharted territory musically and they're already beginning to do that. Outcry is like TDOE on steroids, and they're just getting started.

Honestly, I cringe when I still hear people say the wish for a DT-MP reunion or with he would come back. Honestly. if MP came back, Id be done as a DT fan. They have the best, nicest mature acting people in that group now and need to keep it that way.

=Ianuarius said:@The Shaman: Superb sounding? Are you nuts?! :D

I'd propably like the ending of the instrumental section of Outcry but all I can hear of the drums is "splish, splash, splish, splash, splishsplash, splish, splash..." Even all the cymbals sound like splashes!And that's all you can distinguish there. I just have to imagine that maybe he's doing some crazy shit with the double kick drums... but I have no idea if he is or not because its sound is flooded by all the other instruments. He might as well just not play anything with his feet there.

I'm not bashing Mangini here. He comes off as a great personality, very warm and also an amazing player. But the drumming on this album is DULL! Even the stuff in Surrounded is more interesting than pretty much anything on this album... and that's not even that technical song.

EDIT: Or did you mean the lighter part at the end of the instrumental? Because I agree -- THAT is pretty nice. :)

Contrary to a few of the views expressed here, I actually like the fact that Mangini didn't go into the studio with a 'guns blazing, balls-to-the-wall, over the top' approach---and that says a lot, because the drumming on A Dramatic Turn of Events isn't exactly a "walk in the park". Mike played exactly what the album called for. I've followed his career for well over a decade, and his playing speaks for itself; the guy really is at a one-of-a-kind level. However, what really impressed me, both on the new album and the summer tour, was his professionalism. The way he has been so respectful of playing Portnoy's original parts, as well as not trying to prove his right to be in the band by over playing etc., was very professional. The new album does have a good bit of "groove/pocket" playing, but is that really a bad thing? What I hear is a guy who wants to play what's best for the music. His drumming complements the new album so well, without coming across as "hey everybody, look how amazingly crazy-good my drumming is!". You don't just play however you feel like upon being accepted into a band of Dream Theater's stature. Apart from being common sense, it's just basic courtesy. You're the "new guy", and over time, you get more of a say-so, and various other privileges. It's a transition period for everyone in the band, and I'd imagine that the last thing Mike wanted to do was steal the show by playing over everyone else. As far as I'm concerned, the guy knocked it out of the ballpark. It's easy for spectators to talk big, and forget just how much talent, discipline and dedication it takes to get to where Mike Mangini is.